After the Case Briefs are presented in class, discuss which case you think has had the most profound impact on public education and why. Do you agree with the ruling in this case? Why or why not?
OR,
Discuss your opinion on retention and/or social promotion.
22 comments:
I think that Ingraham vs. Wright had the most profound impact on education. i learned that Corporal punishment is allowed in only 23 states as a means of discipline. I personnally agree that it should be left up to individual school administratorsw whether or not to have corporal punishment. It does bring up a lot of controversy in the fact that some may consider paddling child abuse. I like the idea of having the parents sign a consent form for corporal punishment. I think that it is important to discipline students in the classroom so paddling should be done by the principal or maybe like 2 more appointed faculty but that is all. Some elementary students do not behave in a classroom because their parents let them do anything that they want. So school may be the only place they are taught this discipline and how to function in a society.
On the subject of retenetion v. social promotion, I see a bad idea and a somewhat flawed idea. Rention statistically does little good and lots bad. Students held back only seem to benefit for about three years, then are back where they started,now with a social stigma for failing and are statistically more inclined to just drop out . Two rentions and its 100% probable they will drop out. Retention seems a road to failure so I cannot endorse it.
Social promotion, while it seems unfair to the achieving kids, does result in the kids who are headed to the blue collar ranks having the one thing they absolutely have to have which is their diploma. A lot of these kids are aspiring just to that, so they can graduate and head into the work force or military service. While I agree these kids should learn as much as they can, for the underachievers it would do them much harm to deny them the diploma. I think social promotion is a better alternative, which could at the same time be improved.
After reading and discussing the issues of social promotion and retention, I found the statistics behind these are just astounding. Call me naive, but I had no idea (until I read it in the book) that it was such 'common practice' to socially promote children. Wow! and Why? Then, I found equally astounding the horrible statistics behind grade retention. We need to come up with some type of alternate program that will work. I am certain that we, as educators, can put all of our heads together and figure something out. This problem needs to be addressed with a hands-on approach. Hopefully, in our near future, an alternative will 'be discovered' that works.
Corpral punishment has always been a controversial issue. Ingraham vs. Wright has allowed states to make their own decisions on corporal punishment. As stated by the group and their handout, 23 states currently allow corporal punishment. They pointed out that most of the states are in what the U.S. calls the Bible Belt. I believe corporal punishment can be used effectively. Why should we suspend a child or send them home if we can just paddle them. That way they can just stay in school and learn after being discipline. They could miss important material that would be covered in the standardized tests. But we should not be to extreme or too quick with the use of the paddle. If we can discipline them another way, that would not harm their or miss their work, then that should be used. Like banning them from a school event.
The case of Ingraham v. Wright was very interesting I never really thought about the impact corporal punishment has had on teachers as much as students . Like everything else it only takes one person to mess something up. While some administers of punishment know there limits some will take it to a level that is questionable. As mentioned in earlier comments most of the 23 states that allow corporal punishment are southern states, being a army brat myself I never even know about paddling or any type of physical punishment outside the home until I moved here like most parents mine signed the form saying that I was not to be paddled. Discipline should be taught at home and if needed some should be taught it in school, knowing limits in your behavior truly is key.
On the case Ingraham v. Wright was an very interesting case. This case I feel sin a misleading conception. However, corporal punishment is not right but i feel that your child should be punished for their wrong doing. Ingraham v. Wright case was brought before the supreme court because his parent felt that he was beening abused by the principal. Although this child has been in trouble several times the parent still felt that their child was giving corporal punishment. I feel that you can discpline a child without hurting them to the point that the parent has to sue the teacher or the schoolboard for corporal punishment. There are Twenty-Three states That are still using coporal punishment as a mean of discipline.
Ingraham v. Wright was indeed the heated discussion of today's class. I am not sure what where I stand on the issue. I can truly understand both sides of the arguement. It is very convincing that there are times in which a child should be physically punished, as there are that a teacher should never place their hands upon a child. I believe that any subjyct that has so much controversy should be done away with until there can at least be a majority consensus and accepted regulation for corporal punishment.
After reading Ashley's comment, I did however realize how it impacts the teachers as well as the students. The way I end up looking at it all is picturing it as though it were my child and "some teacher" with a whip, making him or her hold their hands up while they strike them.
I think that Ingraham vs Wright (Corporal Punishment) had the most profound impact on education. In class today we explained about this case and given examples of what might have happen with this pre-teen. I was shock to know that people still believe that paddling should still be allowed in public school, when doing this project I didn't think people would side for the defense. As a parent of a 6 yr old I use paddling as a mean of discipline in my household because I was also taught "Spare the rod spoil the child" and I only use it as the last resort. As a future teacher, if corporal punishment is allowed at the school I will hope that we would have the parents consent and have guidelines to how corporal punishment will be enforce.
My group members and I knew that Ingraham v. Wright would arouse discussion and even debate, but I don't think that it would have quite so big an impact on the class. Personally, I am on the fence with the issue of corporal punishment. I really like the point that Will made about giving discipline to children who might not necessarily get it at home. I personally believe that if you spare the rod you do spoil the child. I know that I see more bad kids now than when I was younger, and I believe that there is a direct correlation between the increased misbehavior of children and their parents' lack of spanking as a disciplinarian tool. That being said, I would not want a teacher or principal touching my child, and I can see why other parents feel the same way. I do not think that I would like to spank someone else's child for fear of a lawsuit, but I do respect the rights of parents to give schools permission to spank their children if they choose to do so. I think that corporal punishment should be left up to parents to decide whether their child should be spanked or not and by whom.
I think that retention and social promotion both have very devestating and lasting negative effects on the student. First I think when you keep a child back you not only disrupt their learning collectively with peers, but you take away their sense of belonging and they probably never really feel possitive about school again. I think that there should be special tutoring ang promotion strategies available to these students and I think it should be the teachers and parents responsibility collectively to insure that this student has a chance to catch up with the learning abilities of peers. I truly believe that collaborative learning could help these type of students feel more confident and driven to succeed.
I think that social promotion has its pitfalls also in that there are some students who are just passed through the system without reguards being placed on there mental stabilities and capabilities to exist in the classroom with out tutoring or special help being offered. I think there should be guidelines created to instill in the child being socially promoted with the understanding thet they will be expected to work twice as hard as the students who earned their promotion versus someone who was just passed to the next grade for the sake of satisfying school administrators.
It really should fall back on the parents, they should be held responsibls for their children's lack of interest in learning and should "step up to the plate" when confronted by teachers on what to do to improve on their child's educational needs. I think it is so profound when parents place an emphasis on learning to their children. Teachers should design lessons so that parents as well as themselves can be involved in the learning process.
I feel the most important issue that should be addressed is retention vs. social promotion. I do think that the issue on corporal punishment is important, but that is all but setled in the parents deciding to not allow it to hapen or a state not having it in their system. However, the idea of allowing a student to continue to move up the grades simply to keep them from being embarressed or saying its not fair because they tried and just could not do it is kind of naive and dangerous in itself. I do think something should be done to help improve a students education and teachers, along with parents, should be held accountable for that student and what goes on in school. Accountability goes both ways though and the student has to also be held just as accountable for their actions. If we continue to allow them to simply get by so they can graduate or pass them to the next grade when they may not be ready is doing tnothing but continuing the cycle. If the child is struggling in 6th grade course, it is prety easy to assume they will be struggling in 7th grade and so on. Again, I believe we do more harm than good sending a student into the world without a proper education simply to help their self esteem. What is going to happen when that student does not simply like being a blue coller worker, earning low wages, can not move up because they lack the education, and are blaming the system for their lot in life? That person's self esteem was really helped by sending them through the school system before they were ready. I know some students do truly try and for these we must do all we can while we have them in our care even if it means retention because those who going to quit are going to do it anyways when they get tired of school.
Ingraham v. Wright was the most heated debate in class as I agreed with Josh. In my opinion, it is none of anybody business to be punishing anybody else's child but the family. I would not work with a school that believe in corporal punishment. I am not surprise that the South accepts corporal punishment. I agreed with people that say the south accepts corporal punishment because they are bible belt states. I believe they need to change it to it is against the law for corporal punishment in the south.
I also agree that Ingraham Vs. Wright had a very profound impact on education today. I had not realized that corporal punishment was still legal in so many states. I had previously thought that it was illegal everywhere. This is definitely no the case. Personally I do not like it but I do think the decision should be up to the parents. I believe the parents should have to sign a consent form to let the schools paddle. I know that if a school paddled my child without my consent, I would have a fit. The schools have to respect the parents in their views and how they want their children raised. I am going to have a hard enough time spanking my own let alone letting someone else spank them. This is a very controversial issue but I think the best way is to give consent forms and let parents decide. Without this case, there is no telling where corporal punishment would be today, whether legal or illegal.
I feel that the case of Ingraham v. Wright had the biggest impact on me. I personnally agree with corporal punishment, however I believe that it should be voted on by the school administrators. When I was in school some time ago, In-School Suspension had just begun in Muscogee County as an alternative to paddling. Most of the time, depending on the offense, you were given the option of three licks or two days of in-school suspension. Based on my experiences, I choose the three licks after my one and only stint of in-school suspension. I am always open to any new alternatives and I was shocked to learn that only 23 states use corporal punishment as a means of discipline. I do feel that any school that uses corporal punishment should always have a witness present.
The Ingraham vs. Wright was the case that had the most profound impact on education. The schools are really confused themselves, because if a parent whip their own kids and go to school and tell, the school is ready to call the Department of Family Chilren Services, without asking the parents any question. So if the school is able to paddle then a parent should be able to discipline theie own kids. By me pursuiting a degree in Education, I think that the schools should find another type of punishment, because eventually this is going to lead to a big mess.
I think the case Ingraham vs. Wright was really powerful and a challanging situation in schools. Should a school paddle or shouldn't they? I believe that no matter what, no one should touch or paddle my child! I should be the only one to punish my child with spankings. There are too many "if's" and "buts" and "what ifs" regarding this case. It could be child abuse or it could be just a light touch. I don't think it matters. I think that it should be ruled out completely that way there would not be any room for questions or controversy. I think the school system and administrators should be more creative with punishment instead of resulting to spanking.
I had pretty much the same feelings as Tracy on social promotion and retention until our class discussion. I had no idea that holding a child back resulted in only a 50% chance that child would graduate. To think, I was considering holding my own child back this year due to lack of maturity! However, I also agree that social promotion is not the answer. I don't have the answer though! Tom's comment about the students that are simply staying in school to get their diploma and join the work force was very interesting. Why can't there be a way for those students to still learn the basics of "the three R's" and get the diploma without it being a "vocational" diploma? It seems to me there must be a somewhat simple solution to this problem. I think of these kids as students with different talents than "book smarts." Not everyone is going to be a straight A student and I think parents now are very disturbed when their child makes a B, let alone a C or a D. We all think our kids are the smartest and they should make straight A's when that's just not the case. There should be an alternative for the C & D student that doesn't involve dropping out of school or just getting "passed on." so they can get out.
Corporal punishment exists in about half of the states. In the case Ingraham vs. Wright the ruling allowed corporal punishment. Although this may be seen as abuse to many, I agree with the ruling in saying it should be allowed. The reason I agree is because there are many children who do not receive any form of disicipline when they behave inappropriately. I also agree with the notion that parents must fist sign a consent form giving consent. I do not believe all teachers should be allowed to carry out the discipline because they may do it out of anger and hurt the student. Instead, a person should be assigned to carry out the act, maybe a counciler or the principle, and they must have witnesses to make sure no harm is done. Corporal punishment should not be used for every mishap, but as an ultimate result. There should be a series of steps to take before the paddling, and as the final result it must follow a strict standard. Discipline is not to abuse a child, but to help them understand that there are rules to follow and if they are violated then consequences will follow. Will'S statement is very true when he mentioned that school may be the only form of discipline a child receives. For this reason this case was very important because it allows schools to enforce discipline that may help deter students from misbehaving.
I think the case that affected education the most was Ingraham v. Wright. Corporal punishment is allowed in 23 states, including Georgia. Corporal punishment is another form of discipline that schools use instead of suspension or written assignments. This type of punishment does bring a great deal of controversy into the school system. Should schools have the right to paddle a child for wrong behavior?
I personally believe that the consequence should fit the crime. Those type of consequences are called resiprocity sanctions. There are six different types and one of the types is that the punishment should fit the crime. If a child is in trouble for running in the lunch room, then his/her punishment should be for them not to eat in the lunch room for a period of time. It should not include a paddling.
Upon reading about retention v. social promotion, I was very shocked to know the facts about them. In elmentary school, I seen plenty of students get retained or socially promoted. As a child, it never dawned on me how this could affect my fellow classmates. However, as an adult and attending CSU to one day recieve an education degree, these two matters have left me with a sense of hurt. Reading that handout we recieved, it stated that promoting both of these things in school was a "form of sanctioned child abuse". That is not very hard to grasp as a teacher. As our job, it is to let the student fulfill their educational dreams and give them a chance at it. Anything that is a form of abuse is something that I'm not willing to participate in. There are not pros to these two matters at all. The cons are too promising and will happen. Like someone wrote earlier, I can not believe that this happens to be such a widely used practice. When do the people in charge think this will become a healthy thing? When it happens to be too late maybe? We as educators plan to help, not harm...so what are we doing by allowing these practices to take place?
I don't thik that I am at all surprised by the two predominate topics in this posting! I wish there was an easy answer to the delimas you all are posing in regards to corporal punishment and retention/social promotion but, as with other issues, the solutions are not going to be simple. I agree with Tracy that we must think outside of the box to come up with real, alternatives to both of these issues.
I do want to point out that our book is not the only place that I have seen the data on retention and social promotion; it is very commonly cited in the literature and has been for years. If you find these issues astounding, you might like to read some about social justice in education. Many would argue that we have not solved these problems because they perpetuate the power structures that exist in our society. Considering who bears the brunt of poverty, corporal punishment, abuse, retention, poor instruction and many other inequities, this idea is not hard to believe.
Elizabeth's posting:
Before reading the chapter on retention, I had no idea that there was something even called social promotion. social promotion is not an advantage to any student. Allowing them to go to the next grade and they are unable to do the work that is required of them in the current grade only puts them back even further. I they are retained in the grade failed and this will them another opportunity to get what they were suppose to get the first time. Teaching them that they have certain requirement that must be meet in order for them to go to the next grade will also assist them will the future. For example they'll get the concept of how it is society. Must work had and me meet certain requirements on the job in order to get promoted and other ways in life. It is important for children to get a quality education not quantity. Yes it is true that they will be behind their classmates and may have some hard times dealing with those issues. However the benefit will come in the future.
Retaining students is costly but it is also costly when they unable to get a job because they are not educated or don't have any skills. Not only do they suffer so does the government and the economy suffers.(i.e health care, public assistance,)
So they will need that education in order for them to be a productive member of society.
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